July 28

[Shortngeeky]

Adds = swamping us. Must hunt more tactics.

[Shortngeeky]

Notes I'm finding:

"If the other guides and videos aren't helping you, here are some things you might try, from an "average" 10 man guild that got our first kill last night.

1.
One person is enough to kill all of the spinners, but we found it was better to have more people killing them to get them dead faster and ease healer mana. People with long ramp-up times and who struggle with target switching can stay on the drones, but the rest of your ranged should kill spinners if there are any spinners up. This includes the spinners that have not been taunted down, in case that wasn't obvious.
2.
Spinners, when they are down, continue casting their random fireballs, and also melee their top threat target. It's not a ton of melee damage (1.5k hit on plate to 5k crit on cloth, every 1.5 seconds or so) but due to the number of targets, it may be difficult for your ground tank to pick them all up. Try not to pull down more than you need. We had our hunter and holy paladin pull down the first two, and the hunter pulled the third as well 8 seconds later. Prioritize the ones that are running free over those that are being tanked, if applicable.
3.
Taking the dones to a specific, pre-determined location was not helpful for us. Instead, we used a "donut" where the ranged dps and healers are in the donut hole in the center of the room (you can mark this location with a raid marker), receiving AOE heals, and the drone is tanked on the donut, opposite the current batch of spiderlings. Just be sure never to face the drone towards the raid. Mmm, donut.
4.
Beth'tilac's consume ability restores 10% of her health and has a 100 yard range (no longer the case). This means if there are any spiderlings alive near her when she comes down, she will probably fully heal and the rest of the encounter will be needlessly difficult.
The tricky part is this: assuming you don't allow any drones to drain her energy, there will be a wave of spiderlings about the same time that Beth'tilac begins her third smoldering devastation. At that time it's important that all DPS with any AOE capability whatsoever kill all spiderlings. None of the videos or guides I read seem to mention this (though I'm sure there are some that do), but it was extremely important for us.
5.
In phase 2, our healers could keep us up until about 30 stacks of Frenzy. If you're going over that, either Beth is healing or you don't have enough DPS. If you're dying long before that, your healers aren't able to keep up (note that this doesn't necessarily mean the healers are failing).
6.
It's not absolutely necessary to alternate tanks in the traditional sense. Since Widow's Kiss's duration is shorter than its cooldown, for us it worked better to have one "main" tank and one "soak" tank just for Widow's Kiss. If one of your tanks is a druid, consider having him or her soak the debuff and just DPS in cat form while he/she has the Widow's Kiss.
7.
We found it was helpful to save heroism/bloodlust for about 40% so that it fully benefits healers as well as dps, since that's the most challenging part of the fight to heal, and it also happens to be approaching your dps' execute phase.

Good luck!"


"As a hunter, I was easily able to handle all the spawning Cinderweb Spiderlings with the Concussive Barrage, Rapid Killing, Rapid Recuperation, and Bombardment talents. The first slows the spiderlings while the last three provide enough focus regeneration to allow for Multi-Shot spamming (without a need for Steady Shot).

Having one character focus on the spiderling adds allowed for the other two ground DPS to focus on the Cinderweb Drone and Cinderweb Spinners making the ground team's job easily manageable. Another tip I have for hunters--if you pop Deterrence when you first engage the boss (while waiting for the first Cinderweb Spinners to come) you can prevent damage done by Ember Flare to help conserve healer mana."


"15ish Cinderweb Spiderlings

*
Run around casting Seeping Venom if they get too close to a player.
*
Have very little health and can be AoE down easily
*
We had our DK solo these easily"

[Griffygriff]

I hate to say this because it sounds like I'm just putting the blame on everyone else, but I think our problem is numbers, not strategy. Stuff needs to die faster, and healers need to be able to go longer without running out of mana.

We scraped through Shannox's enrage by the skin of our teeth, and Beth'tilac is a step up from that. There's no hard enrage timer, but Phase 2 is where the raid damage really steps up and we need to kill her before everyone dies.

I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but I can't stress enough how important it is for people to get their valor gear as soon as possible. It will help A LOT with these new bosses.

[Gilgadiir]

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way blaming anyone for wiping on beth cause I'm sure there are somethings that I could've done different to help out, but anyway, Short introduced me to world of logs and I checked ours but I also decided to check the guild Punx not Dead (my previous guild, Misfiit is gm if you remember him). I wanted to check them because they are a fairly casual guild like us except they have downed beth and are working on baleroc. Our HPS is fairly equal to ours, actually feaver is higher than our highest and it seems like I'm the weak point, but none of their DPS was below 15k, I checked ours and none of our DPS was above 15k. So I don't know if it's a gear issue or people don't know what to do on the bottom so they are running around alot but it seems like that would be our issue.
And we didn't get beth below 60% and there is a soft enrage so either healer are going to have to go ape mode, DPS is going to have to step it up(quite a bit), or you could consider trying a different Firelands boss if you want to keep doing progression, My input would be Rhyolith or Baleroc, suposedly Rhyolith is easier but Punx got Baleroc to 2% first night so he may be just as easy.
Although I won't be there so I can't really tell you guys what to do, but if you continue to fight beth, do me a favor and kill her ;)

[Griffygriff]

I thought it was just a gear issue, but our last romp through BWD proved that we are perfectly capable of pulling DPS numbers high enough for Firelands. Why are a few people's DPS dropping by 3-4k on Beth'tilac? It doesn't seem like there is any more movement for the casters than any other fight. Isn't everyone pretty much supposed to be standing still in the middle and nuking or aoeing their assigned adds?

Are some melee dpsers having trouble keeping up their rotation while moving around with the tank? This is something you really have to practice to get good at. I suggest holding both mouse buttons down to move while using your other hand to do your rotation.

Are we not playing to each class' strengths well enough with the add assignments? I'm not sure who was assigned to what, but hunters and most melee do best with single targets (drone), and casters do better with aoe (spiderlings).

[Shortngeeky]

I really think it's the movement killing dps, everyone's DPS shot way higher in BWD. Fights with high movement are always killer. It's like every other fight since BC, the more movement the less dmg we do. If we find a way to minimize the running, our numbers will be like they were in BWD. We have to take the time to find the best Ni strategy. That's why I always stress (& complain when people don't listen) that you aren't supposed to walk in a raid & kill bosses in a night. If we did, we would be done in 7 nights & bored senseless until new content. We also have to find what's going to work for US. Tankspot ect are great for seeing mechanics but how many times have we took their way & tweaked it? I know half of ICC we had to change strats to best serve Ni. I don't think this is any different.

World of Logs is a fantastic resource not only for seeing our guild but for looking up others. *Climbs on High Horse* The US #2 guild/ World #10 guild is Blood Legion of Illidan. Look at their June calendar:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/19341/calendar/06-11/

Wiped 6x on Shan, 8x on Beth then went back to t11 H for 3 weeks. I'm pretty sure 10mans were going in that time to learn the fights & logs weren't recorded but that 1st wipe night was showing that even the big folks don't 1shot progression. Occasional Excellence is by far Q'D's best and as recent as Saturday they wiped Beth 2x before success on try #3.

Beth is going to be one of those Bosses. A Sindragosa if you will. Until we find what works for Ni, she'll be an issue. Now how can we minimize movement to maximize dps? Post your ideas.

[Shortngeeky]

I don't think we were A) all doing the donut or B) doing it tight enough. I know I had alot of down time running still, either being out of range or when spiderlings came from a different direction & I had to AOE till people could get to them.

Sidenote* I read an article for Boomys today & Innevating healers is supposed to be a thing of the past. It's supposed to be cast on ourselves to make our mana draining AOEs less painful. Hurricane is less of a No-No now if your specd into mana regen, cast during solar eclipse & self-innevating. Paragons main boomy is Hurricaning adds again over all the other choices.

[Griffygriff]

Yeah, the nerf to Innervate was specifically designed to keep healers from relying on other people's Innervates. It's much more effective to save Innervate for yourself now.

[Pirtuk]

Thats such Bull@#$ since when Cata came out they said that the whole point was TOO RELY on the raid to help you with mana. Jeez keep with a single story Bliz